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For those who don't know, Japan suffered during the 90's a period non existent growth, persistent unemployment and massive efforts by the government proved utterly futile. It was called "The Lost Decade" for good reason, as you could have ripped it off their calendar and it would not have made any real difference in their society fiscally speaking.
For us, the 2000's has been our own lost decade, only what worries me is ours is shaping up to be even longer. The current crowing is how our national unemployment rate has moved an almost imperceptible tick downward, from 9.7 to 9.6% yet when I checked the stats on all the major cities it showed theirs had actually gone up. Of LA, New York, Seattle, Houston, Washington DC and Chicago, only Seattle had a drop, the others have gone up. The worrisome thing is major cities tend to be the economic canaries, when they drop dead the rest of the country tends to follow suit so whatever minor hiccup they are cheering about is likely to be the calm before the next bout of storm.
Worse yet, if this 'recovery' proves to be like the last two, where there was supposed increases in company profits, this was born from streamlining and downsizing so unlike say the internet boom, the manufacturing boom of the 50's and 50's, these recoveries came from cannibalizing their staff not from infrastructural growth. As we have no real industry or technology that seems poised to ignite our commercial fire this is likely to be yet another "jobless recovery" and if that's the case be ready to have double digit unemployment become a mainstay of our society.
Be ready for both sides to do... nothing. To some extent I understand why, nobody has any real ideas that could both work AND they are willing to embrace. Corporate america is terrified of the idea of competing with anybody, the government's idea of stimulus is to pork barrel project which only benefits a tiny handful, and the citizenry has been conditioned to neither want or be able to start their own enterprises.
Looks like the Randians are getting their 'Atlas Shrugged' scenario after all.
I wonder if they'll realize how much that would really suck.
They're going to find out.
For us, the 2000's has been our own lost decade, only what worries me is ours is shaping up to be even longer. The current crowing is how our national unemployment rate has moved an almost imperceptible tick downward, from 9.7 to 9.6% yet when I checked the stats on all the major cities it showed theirs had actually gone up. Of LA, New York, Seattle, Houston, Washington DC and Chicago, only Seattle had a drop, the others have gone up. The worrisome thing is major cities tend to be the economic canaries, when they drop dead the rest of the country tends to follow suit so whatever minor hiccup they are cheering about is likely to be the calm before the next bout of storm.
Worse yet, if this 'recovery' proves to be like the last two, where there was supposed increases in company profits, this was born from streamlining and downsizing so unlike say the internet boom, the manufacturing boom of the 50's and 50's, these recoveries came from cannibalizing their staff not from infrastructural growth. As we have no real industry or technology that seems poised to ignite our commercial fire this is likely to be yet another "jobless recovery" and if that's the case be ready to have double digit unemployment become a mainstay of our society.
Be ready for both sides to do... nothing. To some extent I understand why, nobody has any real ideas that could both work AND they are willing to embrace. Corporate america is terrified of the idea of competing with anybody, the government's idea of stimulus is to pork barrel project which only benefits a tiny handful, and the citizenry has been conditioned to neither want or be able to start their own enterprises.
Looks like the Randians are getting their 'Atlas Shrugged' scenario after all.
I wonder if they'll realize how much that would really suck.
They're going to find out.
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:12 PM>>the citizenry has been conditioned to neither want or be able to start their own enterprises. <<
Inaccurate. The citzenry has had its independent livelihood stolen from it by a rogue illegal "government" cartel, at the behest of moneyed enemies of the USA.
It's absurd to suggest that, with a little sunshine and chin up, anyone could make a go of independently retailing *anything*. As complex as USA's downfall supposedly is, it's not too amazing that our economy should fail when all the money of all the people is stolen again and again & there's absolutely no possible redress. Is that what you meant by "conditioning"?
That people are too lazy and craven to step around this system *is* their fault, though. I'm just saying: it's not "conditioning", it's simple fearful sloth. The USA is owned by bad people, and we are just too interested in trivia to bother with it. We pretend that it's not on us to create systems by which to live - but somehow that megacorporations have to clean up their act and make those *for* us. Of course those systems are going to fuck us, and of course it was stupid to put anything in business' hands in the first place.
Even the perception of "recovery" in this case means "recovery of the large scale big money systems". Those systems are not going to be good for us. Ever. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:38 PMWhile I do consider most people lazy and craven, that is another matter. While the corporatists have most certainly played to this, I am referring to a more generalized attitude that has become the pervasive mentality in this country that the only way to success is by going to work for one of our corporate masters.
It starts in childhood, when children try to start their own businesses only for their parents to be sued or threatened by state agencies. It goes on into adulthood when people want to start a local venture only to find the costs of opening a shop, restaurant, etc is so prohibitive, not from equipment but from regulatory adherence, most of which was urged by the corporatists who of course have the political pull to be exempted from. The corporatists are utterly terrified of a open capitalist system, just as freedom for peasants was the undoing of serfdom.
Any small surviving business will tell you exactly why the corporatists make every effort to block competition - it's easy to rule when you're the only game in town, or when your competition colludes with you. I however do not agree with the Randians who think we're better off letting the thing collapse and starting over. Wouldn't it be easier to round up the ringleaders of our quagmire and let their grisly deaths be a lesson to their successors? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:46 PM>>the pervasive mentality in this country that the only way to success is by going to work for one of our corporate masters. <<
AAARARRRRGH!!!!! THEN HELP MEEEEEEE.
AARRRGRHHHAAAAGHHAGAAAAGH -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:02 PMdude, you need
more
than help -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 4:34 PM?
Are you offering me money? If not, DIE, PAWN OF EVIL. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:00 PMIntellectual barbarian is saying what many know deep down, but seem to be afraid to admit to themselves.
the corruption has reached levels unprcedented, and the people's awareness of this is also unprcedented, ( see the internet)
where it will all lead is hard to fathom?
will we all explode with mental angst over how fucked up everything is?
I am concerned about the future of the baby boomers.
a bankrupt social security system, no pensions, no jobs for them, their houses worth less than they bought them for?
and their all going terminal " Matlock " level over the hill soon?
and a bankrupt government?
seroius shit is going to hit the fan in the next 15 years !
Ive got my folding lawn chair set up and a cold one,
ive been watching this coming for twenty five years, -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:09 PM15 years?
you fucking idiot
try
15
months -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:37 PMnot months , it's a frog in slow boil pot scenario, years.
look how many people though there would be
'change"?
their rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I am a fuckkiing idiot Roger?
I am wise, that wisdom scares you deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, Roger.
While you don't want to admit it, my exiistence, grotesque to you, probaly saves lives.
you want me in that lawn chair laughing my head off at the world.
You NEED me in that lawn chair, laughing my head of at the world , Roger.
your goddamn right I ordered the code red......... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 8:34 PMpp: You NEED me in that lawn chair...
537pm
did you ever play
flip the coin? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:34 PMi have a string and a ball and paddle, it's a red ball.
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:23 PMWe might go back to having multiple generations under one roof. When we bought our house, we made sure it was big enough to accommodate one or more parents when they are too old to take care of themselves. Not a pretty picture, but doable. If they can't work and have no retirement, what else is there to do? Stick them on an ice floe?
The Corporations have already come up with a solution for our heads exploding, they're called antidepressants. They think of everything, don't They?
(Pure, do we actually agree on something here? beyond cheese?) -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:53 PMIt is the "return to a simpler lifestyle" scenario many have envisioned and encouraged, but it comes without options and without the sheen of power and delight. With America failing, I can't help but see a general slump into honest-to-goodness techno feudalism / fascism becoming the norm - as it essentially has been for most of our human history... so, a return to natural patterns. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:09 PMIt would be good to have a homestead out in Idaho, or Wyoming, or Utah --somwehre int he mountain West or rural Canada...and live off the land .
Communes and grass roots coops are a damn good notion also .
I'd like to get a commune started for people who hate liberated sex (people who only use sex for reproduction) , hate relativsm , and hate earthy forms of pop culture, and love humanity .... -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 10:54 AMSOrry; the compound is filled out with lots of people you would annoy and who would annoy you.
One thing about the future: those without lots of people-skills will be eaten.
No punchline. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 11:39 AMWell I'm screwed then. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:36 PMCrap, me too.
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:28 PMLOKI POSTED :SOrry; the compound is filled out with lots of people you would annoy and who would annoy you.
RESPONSE : How you figure ? Keep in mind not everybody is a postmodernist ANTI-Christ like you, Lokifreign . -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:32 PMAnti-christ is an extremist term. Hardly measured and rational, now is it? Do rationalize that one for us all, won't you? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:49 PMMALVADO POSTED :Anti-christ is an extremist term. Hardly measured and rational, now is it? Do rationalize that one for us all, won't you?
RESPONSE: Well the epistle known as I John, does mention antichrists plural . Lokifreign is opposed to Jesus and Yahweh ...He derides monotheism . He does not merely disagree with even the most generic Judaeo-Christian conception of God, but actively *maligns* it . He revels in mocking basic Christianity --though at times he expresses some admiration for Jesus defending the poor and underdogs, at other times, however, he mocks the reverence of Jesus . At one time I recall in 2008 he posted a post that quoted the line from some sacrilgious song that stated that he should get down from he cross ...and something about using the wood . I don't even like to repeat a statement like that .
Lokifreign is an unrepentant , militant relativist . He glorifies sinsister , tawdry demonic sexual activity of a hideous sort . He jokes about eating human embryos . I'm NOT talking about some end times dispensationalist notion ---which i tend to be quite dubious aboput that line of interpretation anyway . I'm talking about Loki being so sinsiter , so chtonic and dark minded . He is a frightening person .
Being extreme is NOT antithetical to being rational. That you claim it is , is yet another misconception you have, Mr.Malvado . -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:20 PMWell, colour me anti-Christ as well, then. I'd like to hear the embryo joke, Loki, I'm curious now.
You note all of the reasons that you dislike Loki, let me counter this with his positive qualities. He makes long, sometimes acerbic, insightful posts that a great many of us appreciate and look forward to. Loki is brilliant and eloquent and cleverly funny. On a personal note, I appreciate that he understands the less pleasant aspects of life. Though we hardly know each other, I know he understands something about me that none of my family or friends can, nor would I want them to. Sharing something that affects our lives profoundly is...well, a kind of comfort, though if I had my way we'd share something lighter, like a love of gardening or somesuch. I have never found him to be a frightening person at all, Mal and I would visit him if we lived closer, and we don't often do that with internet people. I would go so far as to say I'd welcome him and his wife into our home, and gladly. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:32 PM"I'd like to hear the embryo joke, Loki, I'm curious now."
It was a work of art, an absolute masterpiece. :)
heateddebate.tribe.net/thread...3cadc8e -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:45 PMA masterpiece indeed. Thanks, Enrika :) -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:48 PMI live to serve. :)
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:42 PMpp: Loki is brilliant and eloquent and cleverly funny. 820pm
btw: are you on meds/pharms? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:55 PMThat's original. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:28 PMnot really.
perception is not reality
period -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:30 PMyes or no
is easy enough -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:38 PMThought that was rhetorical, since it's odd for a stranger who apparently doesn't care for me to be interested in my medical history. Suffice it to say that I take nothing that greatly changes my perception of the world anymore. Satisfied, or would you like a list? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:41 PMgood song and dance -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:45 PMToo many big words? Okay
meds/pharms - yes
mind-altering - no
That's the best I can do without breakin' out the ASL
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:46 PMwww.youtube.com/watch
valley of the dolls
you somehow remind me of this song
it is so easy to forget
and not remember -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:54 PMYou're a strange duck, roger.
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 1:20 PMMOLLY POSTED :Well, colour me anti-Christ as well, then. I'd like to hear the embryo joke, Loki, I'm curious now.
You note all of the reasons that you dislike Loki, let me counter this with his positive qualities. He makes long, sometimes acerbic, insightful posts that a great many of us appreciate and look forward to.
RESPONSE: Where are the allegedly insightful posts which Loki makes ---has he squirrellled them awaty somewhere ? -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 1:57 PMHarrr¡umph. You're ¡so scatterbrained.
I was squishing the embryos with my ass, not eating them, argh~! I mean... ¡Fuck dude; that was the ¡payoff - oh; you've really hurt my feelings this time. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 2:07 PMI beg to differ: "Sometimes, I fry them for brekky"
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 4:59 PM<<(people who only use sex for reproduction) >>
reproduction is against my religion -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 6:12 PMi have to admit
the opening thread and next 2 posts
hits the nail...accurately
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:06 PMYou are a King of Evil Lokifreign , you diabolical prince of darkness ! -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:06 PMStop trolling, Jason. Stay on topic, you blithering hatemonger. Start your own 'I hate Loki' thread somewhere else. Again. Chump. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:11 PMWhat are you doing back here Wolf face Malvado ?
I thought you started your own tribe ? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:33 PMCrapping in your cheerios, what's it look like.
No, now new tribe. I just got it handed to me. I have started the odd tribe or two but not much for public usage. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:50 PMI see .
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 5:28 PMBlock competition or swallow it up - my company used to be small and happy, then we were bought out by a big corp. It seems like every week we get an email about a new acquisition.
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 4:54 PMWhat's interesting for me to see is the way some of my work clients have acted before, during and after the economic ker-plop. Some (ex-clients) planned very badly, didn't see it coming for some reason, and then resorted to thievery to stay afloat. Some kept their cool and, though they lost a lot, still keep coming up with new ways to make money, usually in cooperative type business endeavors.
I saw this problem coming for a long time. I feel like one of the financial canaries so to speak. -
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 10:04 AMstart up costs have skyrocketed.
don't apply.
ignore the master long enough
they may come looking
but you already gone.
like dark energy
light gravity is over their heads
rolling side to side
hidden variables
are invisible
catch-22 1/2
just as we can't stop them doing whatever they want
they can't stop us from doing whatever they can't catch us at.
ontoillogical guerrillafellaioship
floats on waves, particle beams up the creek with homemade paddles
jump starting heart stirring renditions downhominid backstreet purveyors.
red-eared sliders
www.salmonellablog.com/RedEar...der.jpg
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Re: The 2000's, the American 'lost decade'
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:28 PM<< be ready to have double digit unemployment become a mainstay of our society. >>
Then you may kiss American society goodbye with confidence you'll never see it again.
There are simply too many corrosive factors at work on US society already -along with the sheer dislocating speed of our downfall- for America as we know it to withstand permanent unemployment numbers as high as the present rate.
The number of desperate middle-class people, wit's-ended ex-workers and walking-bomb maniacs generated by this means something quite ugly and violent is very likely down the pike and closing fast.
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Jobless Recovery = Don't expect a paycheck till 2020
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:36 AMI have noticed a total schism in the reporting of economic news. If you go to the mainstream, ie major networks and newspapers, you'll hear from bankers, stock brokers, and government puppets how the economy is recovering. Then you turn around and read the reports from people who actually make it their profession to dissect the facts and figures and their answer is starkly different. Their answer to put into blunt terms - "We're pretty much fucked."
www.economist.com/blogs/fre...covery.cfm
It is the frustrating paradox of the human psyche, we crave the facts but once we see them we want to drown ourselves in bullshit that says otherwise. -
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Re: Jobless Recovery = Don't expect a paycheck till 2020
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:10 PMSome things - even the concept of wealth - can be so relative. For instance, I was doing horribly - financially speaking - when there was a supposed upswing in the economy. Now I'm doing all right. My microcosmic reality does not match the macrocosm of the current economy. Strange life. -
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Re: Jobless Recovery = Don't expect a paycheck till 2020
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:17 PMtotal unemployment over 20%...
double the govs present statement
watch the foreclosures...
but stay away from realty trac: bonafide plants that the government uses... -
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Re: Jobless Recovery = Don't expect a paycheck till 2020
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:14 PMone nice thing about the internet, large scale scams have a very hard time taking root when millions of people can blog about them.
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